tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17908317.post7499558138524687520..comments2024-03-28T03:15:14.875-07:00Comments on Unenumerated: Exceeding authority under a castle lawNick Szabohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16820399856274245684noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17908317.post-59594857563998059862012-01-23T08:46:58.943-08:002012-01-23T08:46:58.943-08:00I am a proponent of self-defense and the Second Am...I am a proponent of self-defense and the Second Amendment, yet I have lost a close family member, a grandson, to a so-called castle law self defense incident in Oklahoma. His death was almost certainly a murder because the killing happened five days before his court date as a prosecution witness (he had witnessed drug trafficking and a related murder). There were several other ominous indications that self-defense was NOT the issue. The castle doctrine has seemed like a good concept (on paper), but its extension to actual statutes that stress a "presumption of innocence," encourages and enables criminals, psychopaths and those who are just plain trigger happy. It is not wise to put legal vigilance aside. Enough of these ill-advised shootings and we'll lose our Second Amendment rights. See: <br /><br />www.cliffs-of-cotter.comJohn R. Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878948466317117866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17908317.post-16830302209387801592009-06-09T12:24:48.377-07:002009-06-09T12:24:48.377-07:00As a legal matter, an extrajudicial execution is o...As a legal matter, an extrajudicial execution is off limits. As a moral matter - if we consider morality as something not dependent on the law but rather the other way around (i.e. the law may be critiqued as moral or immoral), then it is not so clear whether an extrajudicial execution is immoral. We do, granted, have trials for a reason, but the reason is largely uncertainty about what happened, and that reason is increasingly being obviated in a world where such technology as video surveillance often gives much greater certainty about innocence and guilt than a trial ever could. With this video, the executed man is far more clearly guilty than many men who were convicted in a trial in the days before recording devices. If this extrajudicial execution is immoral on account of lingering uncertainty than by extension perhaps the vast majority of convictions prior to 20th century are equally immoral because of the greater uncertainty.<br /><br />There is of course the question of whether a mere robbery merits execution. Legally, perhaps today it does not. But morally the answer is not so clear. The law has in recent centuries become much gentler than it once was and this development is not necessarily moral. Mere minor offenses did receive capital punishment, and it is not obvious that they do not still deserve it.<br /><br />This comment is in no way to be taken as advocacy of vigilantism, since, to take an example, this vigilante may have destroyed his own life, and that is surely not something I would advocate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17908317.post-84231893769712971022009-06-05T16:31:05.928-07:002009-06-05T16:31:05.928-07:00Vladamir, given the totality of the video (especia...Vladamir, given the totality of the video (especially the seeming nonchalance of the pharmacist in going for the second gun with his back turned to the injured robber), I think your characterization of it as an "extrajudicial execution" is probably correct. It is possible, however, that the defense may be correct that the defendant had regained consciousness and was getting up, out of the view of the camera, in which case it's a closer call. In any case, the jury will have much more information than we do. The position of the body, the testimony of the women in the store, etc. will bear on this.<br /><br />As for the main motivation for the extrajudicial execution, it's probably the same as for judicial executions, namely deterrence against future robbers, albeit with the warped judgment of adrenalin and perhaps other factors at play. Perhaps the likelihood of the injured robber's gang taking revenge (I'm quite speculating here) is higher if he is just injured than if he is dead. None of these, of course, are legal justifications for killing. Warped judgment under adrenalin is one of the reasons we have rules of legal procedure which those keeping guns should learn, and why the legal system tries to leave deterrence of crime (as opposed to defense against imminent threats) to trained officials rather than individuals. (I would be remiss if I didn't add that RKBA does perform an important deterrence function -- it's just that it leads to all sorts of problems if we try to make deterrence separate from self-defense legal).nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17908317.post-13811843161372660622009-06-05T12:58:38.554-07:002009-06-05T12:58:38.554-07:00In the video, it looks like the pharmacist effecti...In the video, it looks like the pharmacist effectively performed an extrajudicial execution on the spot. I don't think even the most extreme interpretation of the castle doctrine would allow that, so he'll most likely be convicted of murder (unless perhaps he plea-bargains it down to some sort of manslaughter). I'm puzzled as to what might have been going on in his head at that moment; I can hardly believe that he thought this would be legal. <br /><br />On the other, I don't feel any sympathy for the robber. The prosecutor referring to him as a "16 year old child" is a disgusting example of media-whoring (I mean, you can get *married* legally at that age in all 50 U.S. states). If he had any decency, he'd just say that this was an illegal execution, period. I don't even see why he felt it necessary to recite this awful pice of cant.Vladimirnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17908317.post-81226745436721470782009-06-04T06:22:15.053-07:002009-06-04T06:22:15.053-07:00Military training is not sufficient for this and i...<i>Military training is not sufficient for this and indeed may have led this pharmacist, a military veteran, astray.</i><br /><br />Ah - I'd wondered about that. None of the stories I'd read about this said anything about the pharmacist's background.Brian Dunbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12952894032434503816noreply@blogger.com